An Interview with Leo Hunt!

This time we talked about the second edition of Vaults of Vaarn!

Leo Hunt is an author and indie game designer.

Mario | La Esquina del Rol Games: Leo Hunt, welcome to La Esquina del Rol. I’ve been listening to a few of your interviews, the latest one with my friend Iko. I really enjoyed the way you’ve brought VAULTS OF VAARN to life, and I was incredibly surprised to learn that you’re a professional writer. That connection suddenly made a lot of sense—understanding the setting in a deeper way and appreciating how interesting and layered it is.

I have many questions that came to mind while listening to your interview, but since this conversation will also be shared with Spanish-speaking readers, I’d love for them to get to know you. So, who is Leo Hunt, and how did you get into tabletop RPGs? What kept you engaged in them all these years?

Leo Hunt | Vaults of Vaarn: Hey Mario thanks for having me here! So my name is Leo Hunt and I've been a professional fiction writer for 10 years now, starting with a series of YA novels back in 2015. There was actually a Spanish translation of my first novel 13 Days of Midnight although I'm not sure it's in print anymore. I have been working in the TTRPG space since 2020

My very first encounter with TTRPGs was finding my mother's old B/X D&D books as a child. I really didn't understand them but I have always liked monsters and I enjoyed looking at the pictures. I have especially vivid memories of the white ape and carrion crawler illustrations for whatever reason. I think TTRPGs are kind of difficult to get into unless someone inducts you: reading those books when I got older didn't really help me understand why playing the game would be fun. It took until around 2017 when I started listening to some actual play podcasts (amusingly the very first one I enjoyed was some episodes of the comedy podcast Chapo Trap House where they play Call of Cthulhu). From there I started GMing Call of Cthulhu and Delta Green for my friends, and playing in a 5E campaign weekly. A couple of my rules issues with 5E led me to the OSR/indie TTRPG scene in 2019. I was intrigued to find out that those red and blue booklets I'd found in mum's attic as a child were actually kind of revered products. From there I started reading blogs like Goblin Punch and False Machine regularly and was really amazed by the size of the imaginations you can find in the scene. I knew I wanted to run something that had similar creative scope.

Mario: I didn't know one of your novels had been translated into Spanish. It genuinely fills me with joy to hear that. I've translated several role-playing games into Spanish, and it makes me so happy when I find these linguistic bridges that bring Spanish and English speakers closer together through cultural products we can clearly enjoy in our own language.

So, I'd love to talk a bit about the interdiscursivity between fiction writing and role-playing games—how that dialogue has been established in your work and how it led you to create such a passionate setting. Honestly, the conversation with the art of Mœbius, Wolf, Herbert, among others, is very clear when one looks at Vaults of Vaarn.

Leo Hunt: Thank you! I think fiction writing has an interesting relationship with TTRPGs. I think that being good at writing in one form doesn't always translate to another form, and that 'story telling' in it's purest form is still the preserve of fiction. TTRPGs require a different mode of creation which I don't totally have a name for - it's less about plotting and more about preparing the ground for a plot to happen (or not). So obviously some of the same instincts that guide you towards a plot in fiction writing (looking for places where conflict could arise) are used, but instead you're kind of passively creating these situations for the PCs to encounter.

There are other skills that I think are shared of course. If you're in control of your tone and form, then you can transfer that skill from one medium to another. Likewise being skilled at concise, vivid description of characters or places will serve you well in almost any written medium.

Mario: Leo, how was the writing process for this second edition? What aspects of the game’s setting are you most proud of in this new edition?

Leo Hunt: The writing process has been quite involved. I knew that 2E had to be the same thing people enjoyed in the original edition, but have enough expanded content to make it worth picking up even if you have the zines or the Deluxe Edition hardback. The Second Edition is currently 304 pages long and 80,000 words, more than twice the size of the Deluxe Edition! At this point I'm not sure it even counts as a minimalist game anymore, especially when you consider that the original zine was 48 pages.

What I've been doing is looking for conceptual gaps in the ruleset; places where GMs wanted more guidance or more content but didn't have it. Happily there are enough players and fans that I've heard plenty of feedback in the past five years, so it was easy to know where to start. A good example would be rules for followers and mercenaries: there's now a more complete system for hiring NPCs to fight alongside you. These rules are totally optional and some groups won't even use these pages, but the rulebook now covers it. So I've been trying to find spots like this where some added content will fit in seamlessly.

However I want the system to be approachable so every new addition has to justify itself. It's difficult because some groups want lots of extra rules and some want the system to be even simpler!

Regarding the setting itself, I've had fun expanding the anti-canon lore through some added dice tables. As an example, you can now generate random Autarchs, the fallen god kings who once ruled Vaarn. You get details of the length of their reign, how they died, and how they're remembered in folklore. So if your players are exploring Autarchy-era ruins, you can generate the Autarch who decreed the structure be built and learn something about them, which you could then integrate into the location if you like. And since it's another set of dice tables, you aren't bound by having to remember a big list of these dead rulers.

Mario: Awesome!. I can't wait to roll the dice on those tables. It's clear that the art of the original zine was inspired by Jean 'Moebius' Giraud, Kilian Eng and the comics of Stathis Tsemberlidis and Lando. Tell me, what decisions you have made in the art direction of this new edition - will you keep your illustrations, as in the original, or will you include commissioned art?

Leo Hunt: Yes, the illustration and layout will continue to be done by me. Although there are definitely more experienced artists out there I think my style is part of the appeal of the setting and I want to write every word and draw every line myself. For some of the oldest pieces I may be looking to remaster or redraw them, depending on how much time I have. There's going to be plenty of new illustrations, and I'm going for a limited colour scheme in blue and red to make them really pop.

Mario: I'm really glad you said that. I honestly can't imagine the game without your art. I think it's a wonderful decision. Your words and your artwork go hand in hand, shaping this fascinating world. I congratulate you on that—a wise choice.

Leo Hunt: Thank you! I do feel my art is quite integral to the tone of the project, I'm always striving to make the books look exactly how I want them.

Mario: On another note, I'd love for you to tell us more about the crowdfunding campaign you're planning. What can you reveal about what's coming to leave us on the best cliffhanger and get us excited to sign up and support the project?

Leo Hunt: Regarding the crowdfunding campaign, it will be launching at the end of July. I am raising money for an offset print run of the core 2E rules. There will also be a referee's screen and limited art print. I have a few stretch goals in mind including new ambient music from Out On Our Own, who have already recorded two Vaarn albums already.

I am not offering lots of components and add-ons because this is my first time coordinating international logistics and I want to keep the project lean and efficient to make sure everyone gets their books as soon as they're printed. However I'm really happy with the quality of the draft material and I think this is going to be the definitive version of Vaults of Vaarn. There is so much extra content in the new edition, and it keeps the streamlined rules while still expanding on the original zines and making them easier to run. If you're already a fan of the setting I think the updates will be welcomed, and for people who don't already know Vaarn, this is a chance to find out why it's been played and talked about for the last five years.

Mario: Oh! Leo, it’s truly great to know that the crowdfunding launch is coming soon, and I’m really excited about it. I’m very grateful for the time you took for this interview, and I just want to deeply thank you for taking the time to develop the second edition of the game.

Leo Hunt: Thank you Mario!

Vaults of Vaarn is a psychedelic science-fantasy adventure game with minimalist rules that empower player creativity, a pervading tone of melancholy weirdness, and an emphasis on procedural content generation.

Vaarn is a surreal and colourful world: a post-apocalyptic, post-human landscape, where the dividing line between flesh and machinery has blurred and the borders between magic, science, and faith have likewise become obscured. Exploring a vast sky-blue desert that lies at the very end of time, player characters will brave heatwaves and sandstorms, battle mutated animals and crazed robots, and delve into buried tech-tombs to scavenge fragments of the fabled Long Ago.

Our friends at The Weekly Scroll Tabletop Podcast had Leo Hunt as a guest to run a session of Vaults of Vaarn—if you haven’t checked out the game yet, this is a fantastic place to start!